Welcome

To be seen is terrifying.

In Episode 6, we explore fear in art and the creative process. Not as something to conquer, but something to move with.

Do you create from fear?
Fear of stopping.
Fear that no one will care.

Or do you create from love?

If the art is powerful in the end, does it matter how you got there?

Inspired by Art & Fear by David Bayles and Ted Orland, we reflect on internal fear versus external fear. Fear of yourself. Fear of others.

If no one laughs at a joke, is it still comedy?
If no one sees your painting, is it still art?

We explore the rower and the rock. Focus on the obstacle, and you crash into it. Focus on the clear path, and you move.

Fear narrows vision.
Love expands it.

We talk about radical self-expression and spaces like Burning Man, where art is welcomed without apology.

Maybe art is not about applause.

Maybe it’s about connection.

Connection to yourself.
Connection to love.
Connection without fear.

Create anyway.
Move anyway.

Mentions and References

📖 Art & Fear — David Bayles & Ted Orland

🎭 Lenny Bruce

🎪 Burning Man

🎸 The Beatles (The White Album)

🎬 This Is Spinal Tap

🎨 The Cho Show — David Choe

✍️ Hunter S. Thompson

“Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working.” — Pablo Picasso

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True Fans and AI Web Crawlers we proudly present… The Transcript

Podcast #6 Fear in Art

[00:00:00] The Musician: Hey everybody. 

[00:00:08] The Writer: I’m the Writer. 

[00:00:09] The Musician: I’m the Musician. Today we might talk about fear as it relates to art, but probably a lot of other things. I think it will touch on fear of who knows what. Public speaking is one of the biggest fears possible.

[00:00:29] The Writer: Yeah,

[00:00:29] The Musician: maybe even people fear public speaking more than death, which is wild to think, but it, it statistically happens where you look at the facts and you’ll say, what’s your biggest fear?

[00:00:40] The Musician: And they say public speaking, even before so many other things. 

[00:00:46] The Writer: Yeah, fear is a big one in life too. What do you do? Do you conquer it or do you make friends with it? What do you do with it? 

[00:00:55] The Musician: That all sounds good. The fear is either a big driving force for [00:01:00] some people in their art or in their life, but some people say the opposite of fear is love.

[00:01:05] The Musician: So if your art was driven by fear or driven by love, but is this amazing art, if you did it every day, like with love everyday art, but if you did it with fear. Afraid that your inspiration would dry up or afraid that your art wasn’t progressing well enough and you had to keep going, and you’d do it out of like sort of chasing something with fear, in the end, if the art is beautiful, does it matter ?

[00:01:36] The Writer: How you got there? 

[00:01:37] The Musician: How you got there, 

[00:01:37] The Writer: right. 

[00:01:38] The Musician: With love or or with fear or a great mix of both? 

[00:01:42] The Writer: Yeah. Or is it a discovery of your relationship with both of those qualities inside yourself or, you know, the, all the different things that connect with both of those, all the different qualities of ourselves and our emotions and our [00:02:00] thoughts and our experiences in our lives.

[00:02:03] The Writer: And how it can become an exploration and actually even really healing to do art and either move more into love or move through fears. Like I used to do a lot of abstract painting a long time ago. I actually don’t really do that much anymore, but I loved all the places it took me as I would just move the paintbrush.

[00:02:31] The Writer: On the canvas. I just felt myself in my own mind, moving, moving too and just whatever would come up, I just found it this beautiful exploration, even though a lot of times it was really hard too, actually. I felt like there was purging things as I was creating. 

[00:02:52] The Musician: So like you said about what do you do with fear?

[00:02:55] The Musician: Do you love it? Or, or whatever. Maybe there’s just a movement [00:03:00] movement. Like how many people say scared stiff? Like you’re so scared you couldn’t move, but then maybe the movement is the love. 

[00:03:11] The Writer: Hmm. Yeah. A way to, A way to love. 

[00:03:18] The Musician: And like you said about abstract. If it’s abstract, then you’re not trying to make it look like anything.

[00:03:22] The Musician: You’re just moving the paint. And in that freedom, there could be so much movement that it actually. 

[00:03:30] The Writer: It’s almost like it’s this exertion or determination or persistence of something deeper inside yourself. Kind of like 

[00:03:40] The Musician: And purging. 

[00:03:41] The Writer: Yeah, like a strength of our will as we’re making art to just move forward and rebel and be like, fuck this, I’m not staying here.

[00:03:54] The Writer: I don’t wanna be stagnant. I need to create. Or move forward and [00:04:00] a lot, you know, that really, really is powerful and it’s just one way of doing it. And I, I know there’s so many ways in life to do that same thing. 

[00:04:11] The Musician: Who cares if it’s, I love doing art, so I do it every day, or I’m afraid if I ever stop, I’ll never start again.

[00:04:20] The Writer: Yeah. It’s hard to start again once you take a break sometimes. 

[00:04:24] The Musician: But who would care as long as you are moving forward. 

[00:04:29] The Writer: Yeah. Even one tiny, tiny step forward. I mean that it can be really heroic. Someone else might look at it and feel like, okay, whatever. Like, that’s so small, but then inside yourself you’re like, no, I did something heroic.

[00:04:48] The Musician: True, true. There again, like the public speaking is like, you know, maybe you just had to get up in front of everyone and just say one word.

[00:04:56] The Writer: Hmm. 

[00:04:57] The Musician: And you were so afraid that it was [00:05:00] even hard to just stammer out that one word, 

[00:05:03] The Writer: even one word, 

[00:05:05] The Musician: versus people that just get up and it’s like everything just spills out.

[00:05:09] The Musician: They say they’re supposed to say the one word, and next thing you know, they’re like reciting dickens or telling you their whole life story. Everything spills out with love. No fear. 

[00:05:23] The Writer: Yeah, with love. 

[00:05:23] The Musician: No fear 

[00:05:25] The Writer: with fear. As we’re creating art, there’s more of a constriction versus something that, you know, where you can be a channel to of creation, where you let go inside yourself and really allow whatever is there in the well of your inspiration to really grab it.

[00:05:48] The Writer: You know, kind of like this, uh. Eccentric way of, um, becoming inspired. How sometimes it’s really random, like you won’t even [00:06:00] know where a thought or an idea comes from. But in order to be receptive in that space, there needs to be a certain amount of letting go I find personally, but I dunno how it is for other people.

[00:06:12] The Musician: Yeah. Fearlessness. Uh, I think, I think then that touches one of the more important qualities of fear. Fear does have the danger of some limits and limitations, whereas love has no limit. It’s absolutely free and fearless. And so, 

[00:06:31] The Writer: oh, that’s delicious. 

[00:06:32] The Musician: That’s maybe where the fear could be a great thing to move art forward, but at the point where you’re moving forward with enough movement and without fear, then you would, you would be in the realm of, of pure love and, and limitless inspiration and just and touching the part of yourself that, that’s 

[00:06:53] The Writer: infinity feeling. 

[00:06:55] The Musician: Yeah. Like Fractualized. 

[00:06:57] The Writer: Yes. Oh, 

[00:06:59] The Musician: where every, [00:07:00] every movement forward, every step, all you can see is, is the infinite next steps you could take. Like where people have like 20 projects in their desk and can’t decide which one to work in. ‘Cause they’re all so amazing. I just have to do that painting and this piece of music and make these brownies and. 

[00:07:20] The Writer: That gives me when you, as soon as you said Fractualize, you know, you can see this sort of avenue like in front of you, like that goes forever, fractualize. And in that space, isn’t there a sort of belief, a lack of fear, and moving more towards love gives this really strong belief?

[00:07:45] The Musician: Well, I think that gets into, there’s a great book called Art and Fear. In it, they talk about fear of yourself, like internal fears versus fear of others and how the world’s perceiving your [00:08:00] art. And so like your own insecurities and your own fears versus the actual fear of will people respond well to my art therein.

[00:08:09] The Musician: Yeah. There’s an ego that has a belief that everyone loves your art, especially if you’re, you know, well received by the public and everybody’s all into it. You know, everybody jumps on your game. You could have this belief, but that doesn’t even come from within yourself. That comes from this outside. 

[00:08:28] The Writer: You mean like outside successes?

[00:08:31] The Writer: How it, 

[00:08:32] The Musician: and even someone that just doesn’t believe in themselves, they don’t, they, they don’t have that inside. There’s still stricken by fear and, and inside they might not be at peace with the process and everything might be sort of them using this external support and external 

[00:08:52] The Writer: to lift them up. 

[00:08:53] The Musician: Yeah. To, to right to, so some people might move past fear outside of themselves.

[00:08:58] The Musician: Comedians are [00:09:00] self-deprecating and they, they usually are really, they don’t think they’re funny or they don’t think that their stuff is that great, but you know, so they’re always like down on themselves. There’s a lot of self-deprecating comedians that are really hard on themselves, but. The audience will receive it so well that they’ll, they’ll keep moving forward and keep moving on.

[00:09:18] The Musician: And that’s what it’s all about. That’s one of those strange art forms that requires interaction. Like you need an audience. You can’t just sit in a room and tell jokes and, Hey, I’m a comedian and it’s art. Like, uh, Mike Kaplan had had said in his thing, he said. Like, you know, if a tree falls in the forest and it doesn’t make a sound, it really happen.

[00:09:39] The Musician: If a comedian tells a joke in a room and no one laughs, is that still, is that still art? And he says, no, it’s not comedy, it’s tragedy. 

[00:09:49] The Writer: Oh, 

[00:09:51] The Musician: but you know, if nobody laughs at your joke, is it still a joke? Is it still art? Does it need to be received by the public, by the [00:10:00] masses. And there, that’s where we’re talking about the, in internal versus the external.

[00:10:04] The Musician: With the fears to validate yourself as an artist and to validate your art, do you need that love and lack of fear and inspiration within yourself or, or can it come 

[00:10:13] The Writer: or that observation 

[00:10:15] The Musician: Yeah. 

[00:10:16] The Writer: of it in order to make it valid and true. 

[00:10:19] The Musician: Yeah. Like if you had no audience, would you still write books? Would you still paint?

[00:10:24] The Musician: Would you still keep going? Some artists, yes, but some no. Like be, they’d give up and say, no one cares and they wouldn’t do it. 

[00:10:31] The Writer: Mm, that’s so true. That’s so true. 

[00:10:34] The Musician: Comedians definitely would stop enough times in front of a crowd and no one laughs. I think they would stop 

[00:10:42] The Writer: and probably there’s different driving forces for the person that says.

[00:10:49] The Writer: No, I won’t create because no one’s gonna care versus someone that is gonna create anyway. You know? Like 

[00:10:57] The Musician: too many prolific 

[00:10:58] The Writer: if you [00:11:00] Yeah, yeah. You just do it because that’s who you are and that’s what you want for yourself in your life. And it’s just part of your expression of being in this world and being alive and living 

[00:11:15] The Musician: and built into that is a, is a fearlessness.

[00:11:18] The Writer: Yes, it’s all connected, all of that, not just when you’re doing the art, but in any moment throughout the day, it’s almost like art. We get to practice that fearlessness. It becomes a practice 

[00:11:36] The Musician: and touching a place within yourself that is, that is, like we said, limitless and, and inspired, and, and, 

[00:11:44] The Writer: and then we can bring it.

[00:11:47] The Writer: Bring it to right now when we cheers, you know, and cheers. Cheers.[00:12:00] 

[00:12:00] The Writer: Mm, fearless. Sip 

[00:12:05] The Musician: the art of coffee.

[00:12:09] The Musician: I move forward like no one, like no one knows. Just careless, infinite coffee in my mouth. 

[00:12:18] The Writer: That sounds really good. 

[00:12:21] The Musician: Reckless, careless coffee pouring down my throat. There’s the title stream of coffeeness.

[00:12:30] The Musician: So in this book, art and Fear. Who were the authors? 

[00:12:36] The Writer: The authors are David Bales and Ted Orland 

[00:12:41] The Musician: Pick it up. It’s awesome. They talk about a, uh, a rower out on a boat and rowing, and there’s an obstacle, a rock in the way, even though it’s not that big, but it’s in the way. And there’s two clear paths. One on the left and one on the right.

[00:12:58] The Musician: And they zig and they zag and they [00:13:00] go back and forth trying to avoid this rock and crash right into it. And that would be fear. Moving forward with so much fear, all you see is the rock. And that’s what you end up crashing into is your fear, uh, versus seeing the clear path, taking it and moving forward.

[00:13:18] The Musician: And even people say when you’re skiing, if all you’re thinking is, oh my God, I don’t want to hit a tree. Don’t hit a tree, don’t hit a tree. Don’t hit a tree. You hit a tree. And the successful ski enthusiast would see just clear path. Just keep there’s, there’s clean snows, go there. Go to the clean snow. Go to the clean snow.

[00:13:38] The Musician: You know, just clear path. Clear path. Keep going, keep going. Uh, fearless. Don’t you feel like you sometimes manifest, like, you’re like, don’t drop. Oh my God, don’t drop, and then it drops. Yes. Almost like you. 

[00:13:54] The Writer: Yes, 

[00:13:54] The Musician: we’re talking about it and you told, you invited life to, to drop the cake. 

[00:13:59] The Writer: It [00:14:00] reminds me of like a cat. When a cat jumps to something really high, and I swear I can see their wheels turning or something in them where they’re envisioning They’re already up there. Yes. Their paws have landed. They are there, and then all they do right the moment before they jump, it’s just, oh. Let go into that stream of movement.

[00:14:24] The Writer: Yeah. And then they’re there. 

[00:14:27] The Musician: It’s true. 

[00:14:28] The Writer: Oh, 

[00:14:31] The Musician: and I love that feeling when I visualize something and then I’m able to actualize it. Like where I really wanted something to turn out a certain way, a piece of art, or say I’m cooking or making music or. Whatever it is, I visualize in my mind, okay, I want it to be like this.

[00:14:50] The Musician: And then as I, as I push through when it comes out, just the way I envisioned it, I get excited. I feel like that cat must feel like I’m there. I’m gonna land, I’m gonna land [00:15:00] with all fours. Yes. Perfect. 

[00:15:01] The Writer: Yes. 

[00:15:02] The Musician: Landing, like nail the landing 

[00:15:03] The Writer: and you know it in 

[00:15:05] The Writer: Nailed it., 

[00:15:06] The Writer: You know it’s gonna happen.

[00:15:09] The Musician: It’s all happening.

[00:15:16] The Writer: I love when it happens. 

[00:15:18] The Musician: So if the person is completely fearless, they don’t need a crowd, they don’t need inspiration, they need nothing but whatever their artist tools are and go and move forward. But other people dealing with external fears, maybe that’s then what some of like the collaborative projects are, or you know, like co-lab, uh, like a, like an art community trying to get into communities, art, something like Burning Man, trying to create these safe spaces to be free and express yourself to remove the fear of, of expression, artistic expression 

[00:15:58] The Writer: and radical [00:16:00] expression.

[00:16:00] The Musician: And trying to get out there like, and really, 

[00:16:03] The Writer: and be really accepting of all kinds of expressions. That’s actually. A long time ago when I connected with that community, the Burning Man community, that is my, it turns out that’s so my tribe. It’s like, 

[00:16:21] The Musician: yeah, 

[00:16:22] The Writer: there’s just such a welcoming, a really comfortable, welcoming, inviting, be however you are in any moment.

[00:16:31] The Writer: What is the Wabi-Sabi, the Art of Imperfections, just. Be your imperfect self, bring whatever on any day. You know, a lot of times we’re just flowing through life. It’s up and down. So on one day you feel one way on another day, another way. And I just love that acceptance when people are really accepting.

[00:16:53] The Musician: Yeah, I feel the same way. And so I guess the goal would be [00:17:00] to create that within yourself. 

[00:17:02] The Writer: Mm-hmm. 

[00:17:03] The Musician: Is to have such a free. Where you say like, nobody cares what you think, where you don’t judge yourself and you, you, you’re not stopping yourself from, oh, I wonder if I said this, what people would think, oh, I wonder if I painted something, if people would get down with it, if it was, 

[00:17:20] The Writer: but to burn that critical part and just like be spontaneous and just do it.

[00:17:27] The Writer: If it comes to your mind, just do it 

[00:17:30] The Musician: and maybe even almost be excited for criticism. People not liking it. Not to say that you’re doing it to get a reaction, but almost being like, okay, the art I’m making is provoking. It’s thought provoking. It’s, it’s tantalizing. It’s something that 

[00:17:47] The Writer: maybe even not understood by another person, but that’ss all right, then 

[00:17:51] The Musician: creates controversy.

[00:17:52] The Writer: Yeah. And conversations maybe that need to happen or not need, but you know, just are [00:18:00] desiring to happen 

[00:18:01] The Musician: and could expand other artists too, could, there could be so many other people that are a afraid, you know, to venture into that realm of the art that once you break the ground and you say, okay, I’m the person that, you know, paints this, whatever, controversial or misunderstood or whatever it was, you wonder what would people think if I said that or what people think if I did that.

[00:18:26] The Musician: If you just did it anyway fearlessly and then other people felt like it was okay. I mean, we know anyway. I mean, I know that Lenny Bruce radically changed the world of comedy and just questioned if there was even as a such thing as a dirty word while he was getting arrested for using obscenities in his comedy.

[00:18:44] The Musician: Nowadays people just cuss whenever they want in their comedy and they don’t go to jail. He went to jail and he actually suffered 

[00:18:52] The Writer: Wow. 

[00:18:52] The Musician: For his art, and he didn’t care what people thought. He was fearless to say, this is real life. This is, these are words. Yeah, this is comedy. [00:19:00] This is happening. And people sort of take it for granted, but he broke the ground and people don’t know that.

[00:19:05] The Musician: You know, it took somebody unafraid to start the movement and then now they get to live off that freedom to almost joke about anything. 

[00:19:16] The Writer: Cheers to him. 

[00:19:18] The Musician: Cheers. To Lenny Bruce. 

[00:19:19] The Writer: Wow. All.

[00:19:27] The Musician: He, even in his anger with the, the government and the police and everything, has the quote. If you take away the word fuck, then you can’t say fuck the government. So he’s like, they’re protecting themselves. That’s great. And don’t let them hide behind laws and rules and 

[00:19:46] The Writer: Yeah, 

[00:19:47] The Musician: for whatever criticism of their art.

[00:19:49] The Musician: The art of arresting people. 

[00:19:50] The Writer: Yeah. We need to the freedom for our own opinion and to say it, not just think it or feel it, but say [00:20:00] it 

[00:20:01] The Musician: when comedians are tactful. When people are tactful, not just doing things just to do them or just to get a rise outta people, if you are gonna use obscenities or poor taste in humor, at least make it funny.

[00:20:14] The Musician: Bill Cosby has an, uh, an old special where he goes for over an hour and it’s so clean, it’s squeaky clean. It’s like kid friendly, the whole thing. You’re like, wow, he didn’t cuss once. He tells one joke where he actually uses a cuss word, but it’s really funny. So it’s like maybe almost even funnier that he hadn’t even cussed the entire time.

[00:20:36] The Musician: So maybe there’s some lessons in restraint, you know? 

[00:20:41] The Writer: Ew. 

[00:20:41] The Musician: Or maybe fear even. Go ahead. 

[00:20:44] The Writer: We might have to like delete that part of the podcast. ’cause, ’cause he’s gross. He’s so gross. And I don’t wanna like, um, market anything [00:21:00] that he does. 

[00:21:01] The Musician: Okay. When you see pill Cosby, don’t take the blue pill. Take the red pill.

[00:21:08] The Musician: Make sure you take the right pill. 

[00:21:10] The Writer: Yeah. 

[00:21:11] The Musician: If, uh, you ever encounter, 

[00:21:12] The Writer: don’t and don’t take anything Bill Cosby gives you. 

[00:21:15] The Musician: He renamed Pill Pill. 

[00:21:17] The Writer: Pill Cosby. Pill 

[00:21:18] The Musician: Cosby. 

[00:21:18] The Writer: Yeah. 

[00:21:19] The Musician: He’ll get you in the wrong matrix. 

[00:21:22] The Writer: Ah, I, speaking of fear, he brings up a little fear in me, 

[00:21:29] The Musician: but let’s not censor. 

[00:21:31] The Writer: Yeah, our expression is our expression.

[00:21:33] The Writer: And 

[00:21:35] The Musician: I think there’s another good point of like that safe environment. Uh, once there’s some censorship, you start stumbling over. If there’s a word you can’t say or a topic you can’t, next thing you know you’re walking on eggshells and you almost can’t express yourself clearly because you have these, those sort of rocks that pop up in your mind.

[00:21:53] The Musician: Don’t hit that and don’t hit that. So where’s the clear space to go and when there’s less? Clear, clear traffic in your [00:22:00] brain. You just shut down and just stop in the middle of a thought. Like, can I even say this? 

[00:22:05] The Writer: Actually, that’s a really great point. And how that can come up in art. ’cause then it creates like, um, yeah, that quality of our mind that is like what you’re saying.

[00:22:16] The Writer: Should I this, should I that or 

[00:22:19] The Musician: mm-hmm. 

[00:22:19] The Writer: You know, pill Cosby coming up, it’s like, yes. Say, say the thing that came into your mind and we can let it all be. And what’s beautiful is we both gave our expression about it, but we definitely don’t wanna compartmentalize our thoughts and our feelings because that actually creates a jagged art experience when we censor ourselves or think it needs to be a certain way.

[00:22:50] The Writer: No, we let it all be and. Just see what comes up and yeah, we’ll just deal with the things that come up, 

[00:22:58] The Musician: right? Like thinking, [00:23:00] okay, you know, I wanna do this piece. It’s gonna be a canvas, I’m gonna paint it all black. Done. But then that fear of, can I do that? Like can I just paint a canvas all black and put it on the wall?

[00:23:14] The Musician: And then the Beatles white album was controversial. Can you put out an album cover that has nothing on it? But the argument was there is something on it. A completely white, 

[00:23:26] The Writer: yeah, yeah. 

[00:23:27] The Musician: Lay. It’s a completely white cover. And you know, they were the first person, nobody had, had just nothing on a cover. Just the Beatles, you know, just the words, the Beatles and White cover, and that’s the whole thing.

[00:23:39] The Writer: Were they even on the cover, like a picture of them or? 

[00:23:43] The Musician: No, 

[00:23:43] The Writer: nothing. Just 

[00:23:44] The Musician: nothing. So in the, in the movie Spinal Tap, they joke about that because they accidentally press the album and the cover is just black. And when it, so when it’s released and they’re all excited about releasing it, it was supposed to be this picture of a [00:24:00] woman on her knees in leather with a, with a dog collar around her neck sniffing a glove and Walmart and whoever in Sears.

[00:24:09] The Musician: And all these people had found it so offensive. They’re like, you can’t release that. So they just made a black album with a black, just solid black. And the band was so upset, but then they started rationalizing it. Like, oh, it’s so black. Like, could it be any more black? No. Like, how much more black could, could it get None more black?

[00:24:25] The Musician: And like it’s so black that it’s beautiful, like leather and you could see yourself in it. And they started rationalizing. It was cool. It was okay, but it was a joke about the Beatles White album, how the Beatles was just white and spinal tap was all black. It’s all just a joke inside of a joke.

[00:24:43] The Musician: But you know, if you, if you start fearing, can I put out this all black? Can I do this? 

[00:24:48] The Writer: Yes. 

[00:24:49] The Musician: Can I just put a frame on a wall and call it art? Yes. Yes. You can do it. You can, but with fearlessly. Mm-hmm. But with some fear, you would start to judge yourself as well as the, uh, the community would judge you. [00:25:00] You know, can you do that?

[00:25:01] The Musician: Is that acceptable? Is that even art? And with fearlessness, it’s all, it’s all good, it’s all artistic expression and move forward, uh, like that. 

[00:25:10] The Writer: And there’s this beauty to being yourself and being fearlessly yourself and unapologetic. And I mean, it is just as much for your, for the people that you’re giving your art to, as for yourself.

[00:25:27] The Musician: As we’ve been watching a show, the Cho Show, David Cho, and he has these people, you know, great celebrities. He, he is almost interviewing, but they, they go into some deep subjects, but meanwhile they’re doing some painting and some clay and some art. Very abstract, and people ask like, oh wait, can I do this?

[00:25:46] The Musician: And he goes, yeah, it’s free. You can do whatever you want. It’s, it’s just don’t try and make something, just create, just create with, with yes. With no limit. Create without being. And, and 

[00:25:56] The Writer: that show is so good. It’s 

[00:25:57] The Musician: pretty wild. 

[00:25:58] The Writer: I, you really like that show. [00:26:00] It’s called The Cho Show, 

[00:26:02] The Writer: so you can write it down. Yes.

[00:26:06] The Musician: CHO Cho. And so, yeah, I mean, even the fact that you have to ask is a, is a fear that, that the asking, can I do? This is the fear. And with the, with that safe space, whether it’s granted you by someone else or yourself, once it says yes, that’s okay. Do it like freely express yourself. Then yes, you, you can, uh, touch a different place.

[00:26:30] The Musician: It doesn’t make your art better or worse, but it’s touching a different place inside of you with, with no bounds, no limits, no rocks to crash into. No, no trees to hit. No. 

[00:26:44] The Writer: So beautifully said. I love that. Yeah. Maybe there’ll be something to crash into eventually. But at least you explored that space that you touched in yourself even a [00:27:00] little bit to get the needle, the needle moving.

[00:27:04] The Musician: But those crashes are edges and like Hunter Thompson said, you won’t find the edges until you actually go over them or crash into them, or you know. 

[00:27:13] The Writer: Yeah. 

[00:27:13] The Musician: You can’t really find the edge until you break through it somehow. 

[00:27:17] The Writer: Use it all as information as gathering of information that you can. Um, investigate, do surgeries on, get to know, get to know how you choose to move through it, not what anyone told you, not what society tells you, but your own way.

[00:27:41] The Writer: Feel your rhythm and create with your rhythm. 

[00:27:46] The Musician: Maybe even some of the goal of art is not so much how people will. Perceive it and how much it’ll affect other people. Although art obviously does affect other people and, and, and [00:28:00] connects community together there, there’s maybe the bigger goal of just connecting within yourself and finding yourself, and that’s maybe our purpose or certain people, maybe you wouldn’t think that everybody’s purpose is to create art, but.

[00:28:20] The Musician: If it’s not to create art, I think it’s at least to find a connection within yourself and get to know yourself so well. There is no fear, there’s no boundary. There’s just love loving yourself. 

[00:28:33] The Writer: Oh, I just, yeah. And then going out and about to share it. That same love that you find in yourself with the people around you. 

[00:28:45] The Musician: So there’s your homework assignment. Go find a way to love yourself, you know, purely and infinitely. Connect with yourself and then, and then spread it around. 

[00:28:57] The Writer: Cheers to loving yourself.

[00:28:59] The Musician: Spread it around to [00:29:00] the universe and, uh, no fear. 

[00:29:02] The Writer: We love you. Cheers.

The Musician: Cheers.